Monday, November 17, 2008

Please post your response for p. 45-62

76 comments:

Richard Sun said...

When Elie saw the first hanging, he said that the soup tasted better than ever, but when the boy was hanged, he said the soup "tasted like corpses". What does the author want to show us here?

Albert Liang said...

Hunger desolates the men in the camp. When the bomber planes of allies were heard overhead, a brave yet stupid inmate crawled toward the soup. Is this now the breaking point for the prisoners, and now that hunger is making them want do anything, when will the breaking point appear?

Richard: I think the second killing was of a small boy, the soup tasted like corpses because the child was a angel to the prisoners and was much like a God to them, and now with all hope lost as if they had not already, the soup tasted like corpses.

Ted L. said...

Why did Elie lie to that man and told him that his family was well? This did not help at all,rather, it made him never to visit Elie again. Also, when Elie sees the baby's get burned alive, he loses his faith in god, and in civilization. I think that this symbolizes his loss of hope and his dehumanization as a person. I think he's finally realizing what the world truly is, and that is cruel and full of hatred.


"Never shall I forget that night . . . which has turned my life into one long night . . . .
Never shall I forget those flames which consumed my faith forever.
Never shall I forget that nocturnal silence which deprived me, for all eternity, of the desire to live. Never shall I forget those moments which murdered my God. . . . Never shall I forget these things, even if I am condemned to live as long as God Himself. Never."

Is this his rebellion against god? and does this symbolize anything? Perhaps his only faith and hope was destroyed after he saw this horror, so he decides to lead a rebellion maybe? When a man loses everything he has, he goes mad, and is dangerous. So does this symbolize anything? Will Elie turn to the dark side, and do bad things that will bring misfortune to his people?

Bess ku said...

Richard:
The first hangig Elie saw was of a man that was brave enough to scream out "Long live liberty! My curse on Germany..." The man didn't seem to mind dying, and his death was quick. The other hanging Elie witnessed, was of a boy. He was scared and he wasn't brave like the two other men that died with him. What made it more painful was that he didn't die right after the chair was tipped over. He had to suffer for more than an hour; gasping for breath. It made the Jewish people question why God would do something like that. It was worse enough that the boy had to die but to make him suffur for so long was horrible.

Bess ku said...

pg 50 (big book) the Franek man told Elie "Don't kill yourself. There's no hurry..."

What does he mean?

Frank 9B said...

Why did Wiesel emphasize the pipel's death and the soup tasting like corpses?

Jennifer Tang said...

In the beginning of this chapter, Wiesel wants the readers to notice that as the prisoners remain longer in the concentration camp, they slowly begin to lose their human emotions. When Elie’s father was beaten by an iron bar, Elie does not even feel any sorrows or the will to save his father: “I kept quiet. In fact I was thinking of how to get farther away so that I would not be hit myself. What is more, any anger I felt at that moment was directed, not against the Kapo, but against my father. I was angry with him, for not knowing how to avoid Idek's outbreak." Like all the prisoners, Elie is now only worried about his own survival.
When the prisoners witness the first execution, Juliek whispers, "Do you think this ceremony will be over soon? I'm hungry" This quote demonstrates that the prisoners are not just emotionless but also falling into childish behavior instead of maturing.
---------------------------
My Question: Why did the Nazis show the execution in public?

Elissa Lee said...

Richard: The first hanging was of an ordinary man who had crossed the rules. I think when Elie had seen it, then drank the soup, saying that it was better than ever because he was feeling lucky that he wasnt that guy, wasnt the one being hanged - he still had the ability to drink soup, and besides, the hanging was abrupt and quick, a tipping of a chair and the guy's gone.
However, when the pipel - the boy was hanged, he suffered and choked and waited painfully for death. That is bad enough - what's worse - the boy is an innocent child. If innocent children are hung like that, what kind of inhumane world is it? Elie then realises that if naive, adorable kids can be hanged, then ANYONE can be. It also may signify the power that Nazi Germany holds, the power to kill and say what's right and wrong.
I somehow weirdly compare it to well, car accidents involving the victim not buckling their seat belt. You may think it's nothing - it rarely happens, and only to very unfortunate people (in similarity to the first man hanged in this story). But then it goes and suddenly happens to you, or someone that's close to you, or someone that's similar to you (in Elie's case, a young child) or in a situation like yours. Then you realise, hm, maybe it can happen to me (or it has already). But of course, in the analogy example given, all you have to do is start putting on your seat belt. In Elie's case, there is no way he can elude the hanging, if it comes for him.

Albert: I think the breaking point may be different for all the people (if that's what you mean.) For instance, this guy may be out of all hope, resigned, desperate, and doesnt really care if he's dead. That's his breaking point, and then he lunges for the soup - he'd rather die than just stand the suspence of looking at it. However, for Elie, he still has some to live for: his father and his innocence, and a couple of friends. He's been questioning his religion a lot, but he hasnt fully shunned it. And his father - well you can tell although they werent very close before, that they obviously care for each other as family and live for each other (as the rest of the family has either died or taken far off.)

Anonymous said...

In reply to Richard:

I think the reason that after the first hanging, the soup tasted better than ever was because they cared more for the food than the guy being hanged. The hanged prisoner stole during the raid, which was nothing they should feel pity for after so long in a concentration camp where even babies are burned alive. They simply felt no sympathy and their desire for food simply overwhelmed their human emotions. Nevertheless, with the second hanging, he was actually sympathizing for the young boy. Not only was he trying to help by participating in a planned uprising, but also stayed quiet so that others wouldn't have to suffer. Even to the last moment, he kept calm. This was probably what was so inspiring for the people that they had true felt respect for him. What was even worse was that he was left to hang for a long time because he was too small; he had to suffer even longer.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

My question:

1. On. p. 54 of the big book, Elizer said that he "felt anger at that moment, it was not direacted at the Kapo but at my father. Why couldn't he have avoided Idek's wrath?" then he goes on to say that this was what the concentration camp made out of him. Why did he change? What made him change?

2. On. p. 59 of the big book there was a part where he refers to the man dying over more soup as a "poor hero committing suicide for a ration." Why do you think the man was willing to risk/face death for just more food? Do you think he knew of the consequences? Was it a result of the concentration camp?

Kimberly Hsieh said...

In this section of the novel, we see more violence. Here are a few examples:
------
“One day when Idek was venting his fury, I happened to cross his path. He threw himself on me like a wild beast, beating me in the chest, on my head, throwing me to the ground and picking me up again, crushing me with ever more violent blows, until I was covered in blood. As I bit my lips in order not to howl with pain, he must have mistaken my silence for defiance and so he continued to hit me harder and harder.”
------
“A-7713!”
I stepped forward.
“A crate!” he ordered.
They brought a crate.
“Lie down on it! On your belly!”
I obeyed.
I no longer felt anything except the lashes of the whip.
“One!...Two!...” he was counting.
He took his time between lashes. Only the first really hurt. I heard him count:
“Ten…eleven!...”
His voice was calm and reached me as through a thick wall.
“Twenty-three…”
The Kapo was waiting.
“Twenty-four…twenty-five!”
It was over. I had not realized it, but I had fainted.

“Stand up!”

“Look me in the eye!”
------
Now that Eliezer has seen so much, he has lost his innocence and human qualities (sort of like lord of the flies). We can see how he changed from the beginning of the novel—when he was an innocence little boy. He is now a worker obeying orders given from the Germans. He has learned new things—not necessarily good—about life.
------
At the very end of the section, it says “That night, the soup tasted of corpses.” Did he mention this line to reflect his image of dead people? Or talk more about violence? or…?
------
>.<

Elissa Lee said...

Jenny - The Nazi showed the executions in public to warn the other Jews - if you steal, you die. :) Supposed to scare them into obeying the Nazi's every command. It also shows the Nazi's power over them, to force the crazy number of them to watch.

Richard Sun said...

Albert: What do you mean by "breaking point"? Is it the point where the prisoners rebel because of hunger or the point where they cannot control their need of food and fight over food?
If it is the point where they start to lose their control of the greediness of food, I think the they already passed the "breaking point" long ago. It is only because of the fear and cruelty created from the SS officers that stop them. From this we can see that SS officers had a great emotional impact on the inmates. On page 59 in the big book:

Fear was greater than hunger....

Hundreds of eyes were watching his everymove. Hundreds of men were crawling with him, scraping their bodies with his on the stones. All hearts trembled, but mostly with envy. He was the one who had dared.

Everyone didn't have the courage to overcome the fear created by the SS officers except the stupid inmate who crawled towards the unattended soup. Not only that he has to risk being shot while getting the soup, but after order is maintained he is sure to be hanged in front of the men.

Johnathan Lin said...

BESS:
Q:pg 50 (big book) the Franek man told Elie "Don't kill yourself. There's no hurry..."

What does he mean?

A: He knows that going to Auschwitz is basically death. Most of the people there either die in the gas chambers or die of malnutrition. So he thinks that there's no point in killing yourself when you're going to die anyways. He thinks Elie should just spend life at the concentration camp and wait for death to come to him rather than for him to go to death.

jasminechen said...

On bottom of page 46 (the old book), it says, "he [the dentist] would order us to open our mouths wide. Actually he was not looking for decayed teeth, but gold ones. Anyone who had gold in his mouth had his number added to a list. I myself had a gold grown."

My question is, why would the Germans look for gold crowns? Isn't it disgusting to pick other people's teeth?

Robert 9b said...

“I never saw a single one of the victims weep. For a long time those dried-up bodies had forgotten the bitter taste of tears.”

I found this quote interesting after reading this section. I think this shows how the victims of the hangings felt happy that they were finally free from the torture. They no longer had to suffer the abuse of the German and they no longer had to see others die and they no longer had to weep for God being injustice. I think this also emphasizes how cruel the German are and that their desire and prejudice against the Jews make them suffer. The victims would rather be hung than be tortured in the concentration camp. They felt that they have been liberated when they died.

Frank 9B said...

Albert: I think hunger was a breaking point for most of the prisoners because all the prisoners were mouth-watering when they saw 2 full cauldrons. But none of them were willing to risk death over hunger except for that one person. I think the breaking point will come later in the story, when the prisoners have nothing left and that dying was better than living. But I disagree with you that hunger is making them want to do anything, mainly because they still have self-control knowing that if they go, they die. Only until they become insane enough and lose control will they actually do something stupid and succumb to their desires, which is their breaking point.

Dawn Chen said...

Why was the boy hanged for "stealing during the air raid"? As Eli tells it, only one man tried to steal, and he died soon after for some reason. So the boy couldn't have stolen, unless he did it secretly. And if it was random selection, why weren't more chosen?

Richard: I think the soup at first tasted better due to relief at surviving, and the fact that the boy was just another anonymous face. However, since the other boy was admired by everyone in the camp, it hurt to watch him be hanged.

Sandra said...

After witnessing the hanging of the "sad-eyed angel" and of the thirteen year old who beats his father, Elie loses innocence as he realizes the harsh world around him. The hanging of the boy made many prisoners lose faith in God. When a prisoner asked "Where is God? Where is he?" he is doubting the existence of God. Elie loses not only his faith, but also his values. He doesn't care about anything except for food now. He even blamed his father for not avoiding Idek. He changes a lot from the beginning of the book, all in a short period of time.

jasminechen said...

Jenny: This Nazis showed executions in public to frighten and warn the Jews. If the Jews saw their people being executed, they'd be really afraid to break the rules or else they'll be punished. Being afraid of breaking the rules keeps all the Jews under control so that the Nazis can keep attacking them.

Anonymous said...

berly: i think elie says "that night, the soup tasted of corpses” to bring out the sadness of the sad angels being hung.

----------
this chapter shows more violence and starts to have more physical injuries. the box and the whipping made me shiver everytime the officer counted.
----------

in reply to john's reply to bess:
but then wouldn't it be better to end your life by yourself than by a german officer? if he was to be killed by an officer, wouldn't he be hung or whipped until death?
[haha, reminds me of the discussion question we had in class about a short death vs. a long death.]

Nick said...

To Ricahard:
If you were in the a place were you smell burnedflesh of human bodys all day long. Also that they had a very long waplilk. you would have been very hungry, that time the food would taste delicious

Anthony said...

This is probably the most brutal chapter so far, and Elie's story seems to get more and more dramatic by the sentence.
I was just wondering why the officers left the two huge pots of soup in the midst of all the prisoners. There would definitely always be the risk of some greedy prisoner. I doubt that they would have left it there deliberately, because they were in a middle of an emergency and that trying to lure just a few Jews really wouldn't be worth all that soup.

James Moh said...

Richard:
The soup probably tasted better because that man had chosen to go steal soup. He was a man who was guilty and deserved to die. The soup tasted good because they had no empathy for the man. The man was ready to die. But when the kid is hanged, the soup tasted worse, because it was a young boy who had died, a boy who wasn't ready to face everything. An innocent boy, hanged. And he died a slow painful death.

---------------------------

"Where is this merciful God?"
The people are starting to doubt God. If you were in these peoples shoes, would you still believe?

Steven Chiang said...

Page 45-62 Night response
“Where is God now?” And I heard a voice within me answer him: “Where is He? Here He is-He is hanging here on this gallows...” That night the soup tasted of corpses.” (Wiesel 62) Why does Wiesel think that the little boy symbolized God? Was it because the boy had fought for his life on the gallows even though he knew of his fate? Was this a connection to how a religious faith can keep you going? Perhaps that was why Wiesel thought God’s spirit was within the boy. Perhaps it had something to do with the boy’s innocence? Also about Wiesel’s similes of the taste of soup; perhaps the soup tasted wonderful to Wiesel after the first hanging because the victim was guilty. The soup after the boy’s hanging tasted like corpses because someone who was willing to fight in this camp and someone who was so innocent, had died.

Haley Lan said...

p64 (The big one) :
"Where is merciful God, where is He?"someone behind me asking.

In the beginning of the story, Elie couldn't imagine questionning God. But now, his faith seems had shaken. What is the significance of this quote?

JASMINE:
Germans are too greedy, that is the reason why they took the "gold"teeth even though it's disgusting.

Stanley Su said...

Bess ; John : I agree with you John. I think that the Franek man means that there is absolutely no point in killing your self now because you will die anyway and if he kills himself then someone else has to make up the work that you wont do. You'll make someone else suffer.

Nick said...

On Page 61 of the small book there was a question "where is God?" and on the next page the last paragraph Elie was Mocking God in a way "Where is He? Here He is-He is hanging there on the gallows......"
Why is he mocking God? wasn't e a devoted Jew? Or rather that he is questioning the preseanst of God.

jasper luoh said...

Chuni

I think that the change that comes across Elie is that he is becoming less of a follower and more of an individual being. Before the concentration camps, Elie was a devout follower of God and of his elders. However, as events progress, we have seen Elie's trust in God lower to the point where he questions God. His trust in his father has probably suffered the same beating; at first, he says that all that matters is that he is around his father. Does he still feel this way? I think he is starting to feel that if he follows his father, he may become doomed in the concentration camps. In the camps, you must fight for yourself, or die.

I think that the man was well aware of the consequences if he took the soup. I don't think his purpose was to drink soup in the first place, though. I think that the man's mind was already made up to kill himself in the soup. I think he killed himself in the soup so that when he died, he could have the satisfaction of having as much food as he wanted. He did hesitate before diving into the cauldron. This was probably because he was thinking whether or not he should really do it. I think that the concentration camps have a lot to do with the man's actions. The concentration camps have probably driven him mad with hunger because the people are underfed, and they work all day so that many lose the will to live, which is what happens here.

My Question
"For God's sake, where is God?...
'Where He is? This is where-hanging here from this gallows..."
We see that Wiesel is losing faith still during the course of the story. What makes him lose it? Why do you think he starts to question and even defy the Lord?

reuben wong said...

Jasmine Chen: The reason that the Germans wanted the gold crowns is because they were lots of money. After all they are golden teeth!
“ He had been thrown in prison and was about to be hanged. It appeared that he had been dealing in the prisoner’s golden teeth for his own benefit.” We see here that the golden teeth can be worth money and that this dentist was either smuggling them or keeping more to himself.
It didn’t matter if it was dirty because they could wash it. After all a lot of valuable things are gotten in dirty or messy ways like digging for gold and ivory from elephants. You have to dig through dirt or kill animals for valuables. It was all the same and the main reason was just for the value of the gold in the teeth.

question: What happened to the man going for soup? Was he killed by an american plane or a German person? What exactly happened?

Jerry Yeh said...

Q: Why does Elie refuse to give up his crown? Does it mean somthing to him?

Kathy C. said...

In this chapter, Elie starts to lose his innocence, and has become more inhuman like. He cares about himself, wants food, since he knows that he might die anytime. I also noticed in this chapter, there’s a section that talks about Elie after the Holocaust ended. Is there a reason that he put this passage in there? Why or why not?

Albert: I think the breaking point might be different to each one of us, it might appear later, or sooner. I think this is just the beginning where hunger is making them want to do anything, and that worse things are going to come.

Jasmine: The Germans want the Jews gold tooth, because it’s “Gold”. They don’t care whether it’s disgusting or not. All they want is the money they might get.

Robert 9b said...

Steven:
Wiesel thought that the boy symbolized God and He was “hanging here on this gallows,” because he just witnessed a terrible execution and the little boy slowly died in agony and the God that Eliezer believed in didn’t do anything. This made Eliezer think that God does not exist anymore and it showed that he is losing his faith and his innocence. He is no longer the innocent and devout child in the beginning of this novel. And about the soup, I think the soup tasted excellent after the first hanging because he didn’t care about the strong boy, he didn’t know the boy and he thinks that food is more important to him at that time. When the little servant was hung, the soup tasted like corpses because the boy was “the sad-eyed angel.” The boy was an innocent and young boy and he was hung and God didn’t do anything about it.

Jerry Yeh said...

Reuben: He was probably killed by German ,because since Elie is still alive, the bomb shouldn't hit them.

demi said...

on page 59 (small book) He says "I could hear my heart beating. The thousands who had died daily at Auschwitz and at Birkenau in the crematory ovens no longer troubled me. But this one, leaning against his gallows-- he overwhelmed me."

Why did the death of this guy overwhelm him? Why did the others who died no longer trouble him?


jenny:
i think the soldiers killed people in the public to show the other prisoners that if they want to survive, they will have to behave.

Matthew Li said...

"Where is God? Where is He?" (Page 61) Here, the SS Officers of Buna hang an innocent child of merely thirteen. The words of the man in the crowd is voicing the thoughts of all the people witnessing the hanging. What do you think is Elie's level of faith in God by now?

Jenny Tang: I think the Nazis show execution in public to teach the people a lesson, to discourage them of doing the same and showing them what happens to people who do bad things to the Nazis

Doris Lin said...

On page 45 in the little book, and on page 46, Wiesel talks about the German officers’ interest with little boys. The first instance, when Elie’s group met the head of the camp, he described him as, “He looked kind. A smile shone from time to time in his gray-blue eyes...The officer took an interest in [the children] and gave orders for them to be brought food.” The second instance was a meeting with the head of Elie’s tent, “An assassin’s face, fleshy lips, hands like a wolf’s paws. Like the leader of the camp, he loved children…”

There is considerable contrast between the descriptions of the head of the camp and the head of the tent. The way Wiesel says it makes it seem like the head of the camp is actually a kind German officer, with kindly looks, as opposed to the head of the tent, who, with Wiesel’s description, automatically makes the reader think that he is a bad person.

Later on in the paragraph, Wiesel goes on to say “(Actually this was not disinterested affection: there was a considerable traffic in children among homosexuals here.)” However, the way he wrote the structure gives the impression that the head of the camp did not show interest in the children for human trafficking. Why is that? Is it possible that there is actually a German officer with a relatively high position that feels compassion for Jewish children? Or does he only feel compassion for the children, regardless of their ethnic ties?

Timothy said...

By saying that god was ahnging there, it maybe means that god is dead, and there is no more point to believe in Him anymore. Eliezer is losing his faith to God as even a small child fell to be a victim to evilness. He thinks god is not in the world anymore.

Adam Jian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Daisy Huang said...

Richard~
The soup would taste good becuase when someone is starving everything will taste good and after the hanging it means that the soup is now contaminated with guilt

Adam Jian said...

Jasmine,
Gold crowns were probably worth a lot. The doctor was going to be hanged the next day for taking crowns of his patient and keeping it himself. So the doctor obviously took the crowns to sell for money for his own good.

Kristen Wu said...

“I had watched the whole scene without moving. I kept quiet. In fact I was thinking how to get farther away so that I would not be hit myself. What is more, any anger I felt at the moment was directed, not against the Kapo, but against my father. I was angry with him, for not knowing how to avoid Idek’s outbreak. That is what concentration camp life had made of me.” page 52
The last line foreshadows great changes in Eliezer’s personality. What has concentration camp “made of [him]”?

Adam Jian said...

Why did the author add the part about meeting the girl later on who was sitting next to him while he works at the warehouse? Does it have any importance? Why did the girl trust him to speak to and not others?

liang said...

I think after this chapter, Elie loses the two most important things of his life - his faith in God, and his humanity.

While the rest of the devout Jews recite prayers and hope for a miracle Elie to have doubts about his faith when he starts asking questions like,
Why should I bless His name?” or “What had I to thank Him for?”. And i think as the story progresses this process makes itself more clear as it speeds up.

Other than his faith, he also starts to lose signs of humanity. When he sees his dad being beat up by Kapo, he wonders what change he has gone through. Only recently he vowed to beat Kapo up, but now that he sees his father get beat up, he remains silent. Is this what concentration camps make of people?

Ted Wu said...

Loss of innocence and faith are major themes in this novel. Elie was a young boy who had not yet encountered the cruelty of mankind because he has been sheltered and protected by his family. However after he was taken to the concentration camps, Elie experienced the physical pains, the whipping, and the mental pains, distrust in God, had developed Elie into another person. He no longer believes in God, for God has put them into this situation where Jews have to be tortured and killed. “God is just testing us.” Elie doubts the “test”, because he always thought that God is humane. In this chapter, I think the young pipel symbolizes God, with a “face of an angel in distress”. However, the young pipel still has to face death at the end.

Helen said...

Chuni:
I think the guy was willing to rick his life just to get a ration of food because his hunger has never been satiated for long period of time, so he will get any change to get more food. Everyone prisoner in the concentration camp is always hungry and always wants more food, the guy probably couldn't take his hunger and decided to try to eat the soup. I think half of the reason is because of the concentration camp, making them emasculate, usually a man wouldn't try to eat the soup because it destroys his image. Also the concentration camps gives little ration of food, so they will get any chance to get more portions of food.

Question:
When Eliezer father gets hit by Idek, Eliezer" watched the whole scene without moving".(52) He was only anger at his father " for not knowing how to avoid Idek's outbreak"(52) Why do you think the concentration camp has changed Eliezer?

Kristin Kiang said...

Question:
Why does the author say the soup tasted better than ever when he saw the first hanging, but say the soup tasted like corpses when he saw the child being hanged?

Albert:
I think the breaking point will only be when the Jews see a weakness in the concentration camp- when the place was bombed, the Jews were cheerful, and I think it symbolizes a foreshadowing that in the future the Jews will revolt. Another thing that might cause a breaking point could be when the officers say something cruel, and a fight starts. Then that's the breaking point.

Matthew:
I think that somehow, Elie's patience/ faith in God is slowly declining. He thinks that God, the one who is "merciful" doesn't exist anymore. But what he doesn't know is that in the future, there is hope, and that hope is God. He did not wait long enough.

I think that so far, the main character of the story is brainwashed at the concentration camp. He had lost a sense of consideration for his dad. When his dad was beaten by the officer, Elie himself was not mad at the officer but angry at his father instead. Elie's selfishness was increases even more when he didn't even care to defend his father; he wanted to stay away from it himself so he would not be hit.

Michael Wu said...

How come many of the leaders of the prisoners' blocks are Jews? Aren't they prisoners just like all the rest of the Jews?

Bess:
pg 50 (big book) the Franek man told Elie "Don't kill yourself. There's no hurry..."

What does he mean?

Answer: He means that Elie shouldn't do anything stupid like trying to escape or disobeying orders purposefully. Also, he says this because he wants Elie to do his work slower so he will be less prone to mistakes, and therefore less prone to the wrath of the Meister, foreman, or whoever is in charge. He knows that if Elie makes even one mistake in his work he may be sent to an unnecessarily early death (since the job is so easy anyone can do it so if you make a mistake then you're gone). He is trying to prevent that.

Diane Lee said...

What exactly do the lines "I remember that I found the soup excellent that evening... (pg 60)" and "That night the soup tasted of corpses (pg 62)" mean? What is the symbolism?

Jackie Yang said...

""Do you think the ceremony'll be over soon? I'm hungry..." whispered Juliek." (page 59 in the old version)

When I read this quote I was very surprised. I know he couldn't do anything and that he was probably already used to seeing death, but how can one think about hunger while watching someone being killed? Is it simply because he is too used to watching people die? Does he just not care about the lives of others now? Why is he like this?

Silver Swordsman said...

Doris,

Why Elie Weisel portrayed the camp leader as a kind man is to show how good people are at masking their true intentions. From what we know, in the concentration camps, one could expect nothing good from the Germans.

The Camp Leader was described as "kind" and that he gave the children food. However, that, in actuality, does not mean anything. Josef Mengele, perhaps the worst, and most demonic SS doctor ever to walk the face of Earth, treated his subjects well.

Mengele was in charge of the medical section of Auschwitz-Birkenau. He was one of the few men which actually enjoyed making the "selections", that is, the left hand, right hand decision of life and death.

But Mengele had even darker personalities. He would specifically target children and women, particularly those who were pregnant or twin children. He performed excruciating experiments on them, such as disecting them alive, or drawing blood from sensitive areas. Women would have their uteruses overdosed with X-rays to test a new method of sterilization. In total, Mengele was estimated to have killed over 300,000 in his experiments in the two years he served at Auschwitz. He was in his early 30s.

However, survivors of Mengele did recall that he actually fought to save his subjects. Most of the women and children would have been gassed if it had not been for him. Those that he did choose were taken to his laboratory. There, each person recieved their own room, and had access to the discarded garments of thousands. Compared to those that froze and starved in the camp, Mengele's subjects were treated much better in comparison. Mengele insisted that the children refer to him as "Uncle Mengele", and often brought candy for them. Those under Mengele were, in a sense, better off than most people.

Yet, can we say that Mengele actually "cared" about his subjects?


===================================
When does Elie actually lose his faith in God, right from the start, or when he witnessed the little boy's execution?

Shannon L said...

I thought it was so sad that the "French" girl had to reject her true identity just to survive. also, she didn't succeed completely. She was just made to be a forced laborer. Even though it is better than death by gassing or crematoria, it's a bittersweet victory.

Diane Lee said...

Helen: I think concentration camp makes a cold brute out of many men. They're forced to survive under such harsh conditions with the threat of death at their backs. That pushes them so far that they stop caring about others, because that would hinder their own survival. They become concerned only with their own welfare. What's so heartbreaking is that they even stop caring about their fathers.

Shannon L said...

To richard. I think that at first, the hanged man died a martyr trying to fight back whatever way he could. He died in the name of an idea. He was not some victim of the cruel whims of an SS officer. He was something like a kamikaze bomber. The soup tasted good because the other inmates had hope that they could fight. The second hanging was the hanging of a boy who was tortured for information about something he had no clue about. He couldn't fight back. When he was hanged, he was finally trying to fight, by struggling against the noose. He died much more slowly and painfully due to his light weight. That's why the soup tasted like corpses. They lost what shred of hope and dignity they had managed to win back.

Jasper Huang #8 9A (-Wolf) said...

My Question: Why did the Nazis show the execution in public?

The Jews have been resisting the Nazi takeover, and even in the camps, they were bonded by the hatred of their captors, and in order keep the Jews dispirited and fearful of the Nazis, they would force them to watch the executions of fellow Jews who had risen against their tormentors. The horror and shame of watching a comrade being killed in front of their eyes, yet without the ability to do anything about, would slowly drain hope of rebellion and escape from their mind, and they would meekly comply to the Nazi wishes and orders. With their spirit crushed again and again, their sense of identity would slowly disappear as the days went on, and the Nazi’s continued torture of Jews would be met with little or no resistance.
I can’t imagine anything worse than the feeling of helplessness you get when you watch something terrible being done and you are unable to help in any way. From Elie’s viewpoint, you can tell that they slowly are being dehumanized, where they become numb to the deaths of former friends or family. However, I feel that you should never give up your hope or will to live; instead, you should turn the horror of the executions into hatred toward your captors, fueling your willpower, using your survival as a way to defy the Nazis of what they want: your death.

Q: Witnessing the death of the angel-like boy, a man asks “for God’s sake, where is God?” and Elie thinks that he is the one hanging from the gallows, who is the boy. What does this show about how Elie feels about God after seeing so many horrors and receiving no help from the one he has always believed in?

Alice Chan said...

In this section of the novel, Elie changes. He no longer is like a Jew, he no longer is like a human—he no longer has any feelings for anyone. “He was to be hanged…I did not feel any pity for him.” (page 50) This was when the dentist was caught “running a private traffic of his own prisoners’ gold teeth.” (page 50) The dentist to Elie was like a stranger, but even to his own father, he doesn’t having any feelings for him either. When his father was beat with an iron bar, “Any anger he had felt at that moment was directed, not against Kapo, but against his father.” He didn’t even try to help his father, but instead blamed his own father “for not knowing how to avoid Idek’s outbreak.” (page 52) I think the author is trying to show how the concentration camp can make people change; change into a whole new person, unlike the person he was before.

As the story continues, the only thing Elie cares about is his food, why is this? On page 50, the narrator explains that Elie “took little interest in anything except his daily plate of soup and his crust of stale bread. Bread, soup—these were his whole life.” Could food replace everything else and become his whole life? Does nothing else matter to him?

Right now I think Elie only cares about himself. Nothing else is important to him.

Alice Chan said...

I think it was because the first man died quickly, but unlike the little boy, he died slowly and painfuly. I think the author wants to show us how cruel God could be.

Kristen Wu said...

Jenny: The Nazis probably show the executions in public because that way they can scare the Jewish prisoners even more. And also warn them what disobedience or suspicious acts may bring.

Kevin Lin said...

To Richard:
I think Elie thought the soup was excellent on the first hanging because he thought that the man deserved it. He managed to run his own black market privately (breaking the rules) and therefore was guilty. Elie had no problem at all with that. The man deserved it, he felt no pity for him.
The second hanging was completely different. The boy was hung because he did not spoke when asked. He did it because he was trying to protect his own people. It was a very brave and loyal action, and because of this action and because of the long suffering of the boy, Elie felt bad and therefore lost his appetite.

Question:
When the airplanes came and started bombing Buna, a man lost his mind and went for the soup, disobeying order. Do you think after all that had happened to the Jews, they will because of hatred and the wanting to revenge, lose their minds and rebel too?

kimichen said...

For Haley to Jasmine's question:
I don't think it's only because they are greedy, i think it's more into it. Maybe because the Germans are seeking for some other thing.

hannah chu said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
hannah chu said...

In this chapter, I’ve noticed how much Eliezer has changed ever since he had entered the concentration camp at Auschwitz. The part that I know he had changed was, when he saw his father getting hit by Idek. His respond was not angry with Idek but angry at his father for not knowing how to avoid Idek’s strikes. “That was what the concentration camp made of me.” (Wiesel, 52) At this point, this shows that, when you treated with such condition. If you’re not aware, then you will become part of the camp. Deadly, no feelings, and become as cold as a corpse, little by little they are being eat up by this camp mentally.
I remembered when I first went to America and at that time I was in 4th grade. People didn’t like me as much as to themselves between the white and the Native Americans. Under the condition of being teased and dislike, I’ve become more of someone which is not me but what they have made me to become. Emo, lonesome, and jealousy filled me which made me feel disgusted.
This has some connections with Eliezer in the concentration camp. Eliezer was more of mentally becoming not himself, when I become physically and a little mentally becoming someone who they wanted me to be like. Now I know how Eliezer feels when he says he feel angry at his father instead of sad seeing his father beaten.

Diane Lee said...

"He reached the first cauldron. Hearts raced: he had succeeded. Jealousy consumed us, burned us up like straw. We never thought for a moment of admiring him. Poor hero, committing suicide for a ration of soup! In our thoughts we were murdering him." (pg 57)


What does the last line mean? Were they despising him for risking his life merely for soup?

kimichen said...

For Kimberly's Question:
I think it's Elie's feeling of hatred toward the German and this condition/situation. Remember the part where he was being punched and kicked? I think that anger was still in his heart, so for me, I think it's the feeling of hate and anger toward the German. :)

hannah chu said...

I had watched the whole scene without moving. I kept quiet. In fact I was thinking of how to get farther away so that I would not be hit myself. What is more, any anger I felt at that moment was directed, not against the Kapo, but against my father. I was angery with him, for now knowing how to avoid Idek's outbreak. That is what concentration camp life had made of me. (Pg.52)

What does this tell us of what Eliezer had become? At this moment, how's his thinking become part of those who hated the Jews? How does this concentration camp changed him?

kimichen said...

Also in this chapter, Elie talks and emphasizes the golden teeth many times. Is it that important to them? Why is it important? What makes the golden teeth that important?

If I am in the condition, where Elie was been beaten up, I would be very scared and I will feel full of hatred. The French girl was the key of giving Elie the hope of not giving up and holding his own anger. Elie describes very practical and realistic about this part, one punch, one kick, one pain, anger, we can feel all of it coming out of this part.

“Bite your lips, little brother…Don't cry. Keep your ange, your hate, for another day, for later. The day will come but not now… Wait. Clench your teeth and wait…” –page 53
I think the main sentence and idea is this one. It is the main and the key hope that Elie got from. Also we can see that this sentence is also the feeling that the others who is in that condition is feeling and thinking. They don't give up, and they don't cry, even they have the worst time ever. It shows the braveness of the people in that condition.

angela chou said...

Bess,
He told Elie not to kill himself yet because many men have killed themselves to be relieved of the hell in the concentration camp.
He could also be hinting that if Elie was to die from other means than suicide, it would be long, slow, and torturous.

Jackie Yang said...

Jenny: The Nazis showed execution in public as a warning. They wanted to warn everyone that they weren't afraid of killing those who opposed them so others would be too scared to revolt.

Amy Chan said...

"I had watched the whole scene without moving. I kept quiet. In fact I was thinking how to get farther away so that I would not be hit myself. What is more, any anger I felt at the moment was directed, not against the Kapo, but against my father. I was angry with him, for not knowing how to avoid Idek’s outbreak." From this quote, it reveals Elie’s change as he stays longer in the concentration camp. Elie simply lives to satisfy his hunger since he discovers the importance of in this camp. He confesses that,"Bread, soup-these were my whole life." Does anything else matter to him anymore? Has he forgotten his past? While Elie learns to avoid trouble, his father fails to do so. Instead of having sympathy for his poor father, he blames him for not learning.

Anonymous said...

In this chapter becomes more violence and savage. On page 55 (in the small book) shows that the strenght of the Germans, that they can do whatever they want to do.

My question is in the very last page it says " That night the soup tasted of corpses" what does it means? is it because they were many people hanged-up made him sick?

Amy Chan said...

Kimi:In this chapter, Elie talks and emphasizes the golden teeth many times. Is it that important to them? Why is it important? What makes the golden teeth that important?

They simply just want money.

Allen said...

When Elie saw the first hanging, he said that the soup tasted better than ever, but when the boy was hanged, he said the soup "tasted like corpses". What does the author want to show us here?
The author wanted to show that Ellie still had feelings, despite the fact that he didn't shed tears anymore. Ellie felt very happy when the man who was hanged shouted words of hope, causing the whole camp to feel like there are still people among them that still believe that they would be rescued. When the little boy was hanged, it was just cruel, and Ellie was disgusted by that, and his food tasted like trash.

How does Hunger show itself in this chapter? What is the difference between their hunger and the ones from before?

Tyng-Yih Lin said...

At the start of the chapter, a boy comes up to Eliezer and offers him an offer:
"Would you like to go to a good commando?"
"Of course. But under one condition: I want to stay with my father."
"All right" he said. "I can arrange it. For a pittance: your shoes. I'll give you another pair."
I refused to give him my shoes. They were all I had left.


Eliezer probably knew from the start that the shoes would be taken away anyway, so why didn't he accept the trade? They would be confiscated anyway by the SS so why not do it for a trade?

andrew said...

I think they said that the soup tasted better, because he isn't dead unlike the man hanged. He can still drink therefore he is grateful. However after the child was hanged he no longer felt living to be such a great thing. He probably felt horror that a child was hanged which made him forget the gratefulness of living.

What did he mean when he said that God is hanging?

Andy Hsu said...

FRANK: I think the author emphasized the pipel's death because it shows the loss of innocence and the cruelty of humans. The pipel was only a child just like Elie, which means that Elie may lose his innocence at the camp as well. The death of the child can foreshadow that Elie may lose his sense of kindness, lose his faith in god, and turn against his own father for survival.

-----
The word "soup" has appeared many times, what's the significance of it?

Carol Chou said...

On page 61, “Where is God? Where is He? Some behind me asked?” Also, on page 62, the part where it says “Where is God now?” shows that they are losing hope and faith. At this part, they just saw a child get hung, and its losing hope and survival for them, and doubting faith

Carol Chou said...

I agree with Andy. No matter how innocent or how kind you are, after being in the camp for an amount of time, you’ll lose most of you kindness and purity, especially seeing those terrible things. In the end, they will lose faith in god.